#lbd complains

[eldritchlittleblackdragon]

It should be illegal for health insurance companies to not tell you how much you're going to owe for a medical procedure or doctor visit or whatever and whether they'll cover it or not until MONTHS after you got it done. It's fucking atrocious they're allowed to do this.

You're telling me you just now got around to telling me how much for a doctor's visit I had. EIGHT. FUCKING. MONTHS. ago after months and months of crickets. Unacceptable.

[shmreduplication]

one interesting thing about reading Pride & Prejudice in 2019 and then watching LBD is that both Lizzie's can say the same stuff about Darcy but only LBD's Lizzie sounds like she's mocking an autistic man

Like a wealthy british man in the past not using the politeness scripts that you're supposed to use at parties is just like. Yeah ok, he's wealthy enough that he doesn't need to care if he comes off as rude when he's not using the politeness scripts. And people who are wealthy and/or british and/or men and/or in the past all kinda come off as a bit rude to me no matter what ykwim. "He's too stuffy" is imo a complaint you can make at any time about any wealthy british man in the past and it will be accurate

A wealthy american man in the present, well them I expect to have a much more positive-stereotype-of-a-frat-bro kind of vibe. Think of the wealthy men in Gilmore Girls, they're quick to shake a hand and remember a name and ask questions about people. The boyfriends in the show who are not wealthy are much slower to reach that level of familiarity when they meet new people. Uh what's a more contemporary example? Johnny Rose from Schitt's Creek and Tahani from The Good Place are also the quickest to be friendly to someone's face on those shows.

So Lizzie going on and on about how much Darcy breaks social scripts like not dancing or talking very much at parties, talking only to the one person he knows rather than trying to get to know new people is like. Girl sometimes people have diagnoses and symptoms that are not a personal slight against you so learn to expect it and let it go. Meet people where they're at. You're getting a degree in mass communication, surely it's been on a test or something that different people communicate differently????

[imminent-danger-came]

I think what I love about the 3x14 "To pain" scene so much is that it's not as much about the Lady Bone Demon and MK being motivated from the same place, as it is that their intent doesn't matter. It's full on doomed by the narrative—trying to do right or wrong, it all only leads to one thing: to pain. That's the inevitable end. Both MK and LBD "fight for what they think is right", but they're also both doomed to cause more suffering, and that's what makes them similar.

LBD thought she could end all suffering if she created a clean slate, and MK thought HE could end all suffering if he just stopped LBD, or Spider Queen, or DBK. But that isn't possible. You can't prevent pain, or change past mistakes, or fix the world. All you can do is move forward. And you can still love a world filled with pain and suffering. You can still love people who cause pain and suffering.

[quitealotofsodapop]

Unbeknownst to Heaven and Wukong himself, there was once a person who did attempt to take advantage of his fate changing powers in drafted fates au, multiple times in fact. Only the Pilgrims had known of this, and they had taken that secret to their graves, making a silent pact to not even tell Wukong of the true plans the LBD had for when they had sealed her away all those centuries ago

Hehehehehehe

Our idea in DMs: what if the events surrounding the White Bone Spirit/Yellow Robed Demon arc weren't as "simple" as the text makes it out to be?

In this case; LBD wasn't interested in eating or bedding Tripitaka - her plans exceed well beyond such common vices.

Tripitaka *noticed* that something was off about the skeletal demon who harassed them. The rice she offered the monk had quickly turned black with decay, but wasn't poisoned, merely altered as to give the monk terrible digestion.

Upon the second encounter with the spirit, and with Bajie loudly complaining and accusing his shorter brother of harming innocents, the monk noticed something concerning.

The spirit wasn't interested in the Tang Monk at all. Her gaze (no matter was body she took) was fixated on the Monkey King. Whatever the creature had planned, it involved the monk's bodyguard.

At the third encounter, Tripitaka's brain was going into overdrive. Clearly this spirit *couldn't be killed* in the traditional fashion. And it wanted Wukong - someone well up to this point Tripitaka mostly sees as a barbaric, blood-thirsty monster. If the skeleton spirt got a hold of the Monkey King and all of his power then- no, he shouldn't think of it. It would be safer if Wukong was away from the bone spirit's grasp. Tripitaka needed a way to send Wukong away from here.

The problem was; Tripitaka didn't think Wukong would believe him (irony).

In the monk's mind, it was easier to go along with Bajie's accusations than to explain why he wanted Wukong away from here.

Wukong flies back home, heartbroken at his terminated employment (and losing his chance at freedom). He reunites with his subjects and Stalwarts, and protects them from the odd influx of hunters that capture monkey demons.

In the meantime with the Pilgrims; they have some trouble with the Yellow Robed Demon/Kui Mulang. But they aren't helpless.

With Tripitaka transformed into a tiger, Sha Wujing captured, and Ao Lie injured but ready to prepare a strike; Bajie manages to convince Wukong to come home; letting it slip that "Master wanted to protect you". Wukong is intrigued by the monk's concern, and agrees to come back to the fold.

Only they never get there.

Ao Lie manages to expose Kui Mulang as a liar when werewolf-demon makes a drunken jackass of himself inside of his unwilling-father-in-law's palace (as what happens in JTTW). Whilst the dragon prince ends up captured, Sha Wujing is tipped off that this is no mere demon - but a powerful celestial. Kui Mulang is so present in Ao Lie's memory scroll because the dragon was crucial in defeating him.

Sha Wujing escapes in the chaos of Ao Lie and Mulang's fighting to send an inquiry to Earth Star of Saturn. As a former celestial, the fish man still remembers what authorities to contact, and gets in touch with the overseer of the 28 Mansions. The Wood Wolf of Legs is confirmed to be missing - and the Jade Emperor is quick to cover up the incident to save face. Princess Hundred-Flower is returned to her father (with or without any half-celestial children), and Tripitaka is returned to human form.

But where is Bajie and Wukong?

They find the pigman beaten to a pulp among the black pines. Bajie manages to explain that he *did* convince Brother Wukong to return to the pilgrimage, but on the way they were set upon by a very powerful warrior. One which smiled and politely asked that the Monkey King be presented to "the ivory lady" before attacking.

Tripitaka pales.

Sun Wukong... captured? The one in peril?!

The King of Precious-Image explains that "Ivory Lady" most likely refers to the new advisor to a small nearby dynasty - a woman clad in all-white.

In a sense it confirms the monk's fear on the White Bone Spirit - someone truly had been fixated on his disciple and had the means to subjugate him. But gloating isn't a virtue, and they need their monkey back!

Wukong doesn't remember the surrounding incident so well. LBD had been testing how much magic she needed to fully possess the King, and in the meantime kept him frozen in her crystal ice.

Before she met the Tang Monk on the road by chance, LBD had not realised that the monkey she was looking for was the infamous Monkey King himself. Her Emperor's best hunting party had confirmed it when they were sent back from Alolai bloodied and broken once the monk's bodyguard decided to visit home.

It seems the reason FFM was only being targeted by hunters in the last two years was because of the Ivory Lady letting slip to her Emperor that there was a powerful beast out there that could change fate itself...

The Tang Monk enters the small kingdom, innocently requesting travel papers - only to be summoned forth to the Emperor's palace by the Ivory Lady herself.

After all, the Golden CIcada would be a fine trophy.

Awkwardly the monk asks the court of nobles; "Hey, have there been any monkey demons sighted around here?"

The Emperor and his posse laugh - trotting out nearly a whole troop of captured Alolai monkeys, carrying drink trays and dancing robotically as jesters.

Tripitaka pales. Bajie whispers that he recognises the face patterns as being the same as the King's people. Wujing is holding himself back from throttling the Emperor and his posse then and there. Ao Lie is keeping to himself, still injured from his tussle with Kui Mulang.

The Pilgrims are in for a real hard mission.

Bajie manages to let slip to the monkey demon servants that their King is in danger and nearby, but that they'll need their help to save him. (btw ty for the tasty dialoge)

Monkey Servant: "If you truly saw our king among his people, what eas he doing when you approached him?" Bajie, confused: "He was cuddling a baby monkey and speaking baby talk to it." Monkey Servant, overjoyed: "OH ITS HIM!" Tripitaka: That… that's all you need from us to believe we know your king? Monkey Servant: King Wukong is a shí bǎomǔ. He always cares for the troupes' cubs!

No hesitation. No care for their own safety. These monkeys drop everything to save their King. Which is a major surprise to Bajie and Wujing, as they heard nothing but celestial rumours that the Monkey King had been a bloodthirsty tyrant. But the reactions and actions of his subjects are not that of a repressed people. They speak of their King with the same familiarity as an elder family member - their Lao Sun.

What the mortal Emperor not accounted for was that the "silly monkeys" he kept as slaves had been trained by the Monkey King himself in the art of war. As long as their lives had not been in danger, they still held the cards over him. And his new servants had spent the last two years learning every nook and cranny and secret passage of his castle...

It is with the servants' help that the Pilgrims manage to find their eldest younger brother - frozen in otherworldy ice. Tripitaka's hand nearly burns when he tries touching it.

And outside? Something BIG id going down:

Wukong's icy prison turns out to be the "heart" of LBD's first bone mech - much like what would become of Mei in the later model. This Bone Mech is a far more "rugged" design than what she would build centuries onward. The bones and armour of fallen soldiers can only go so far in aesthetics.

When the Ivory Lady reveals her true intentions to the mortal Emperor, and the Chief of War erases the man from human history - the Pilgrims are just looking up at the Bone Mech like: 0_0

Ao Lie discovers in all of chaos of the Pilgrims' fight against the demon's possessed soldiers; that the Bone Spirit flinches away from fire when a torch from their surroundings rolls dangerously close to her.

Ao Lie is a rare dragon. A royal sea dragon that can wield fire - a trait inherited from his "commoner" mother's side of the family (something about a "Torch Dragon?).

(this ability and heritage is also why many years later, Ao Lie was able to carrying the Burden of the Samadhi Fire even as a sea dragon).

But setting things on fire is eaxctly why the Prince got into trouble in the first place! He hesitates to fight back, especially with survivors of Alolai's Great Burning nearby. What if he messes up Again!?

It's only through encouragement from the other Pilgrims that Ao Lie musters the courage to bring the heat down on the icy mech.

Bajie and Wujing keep the transformed Chief of War occupied so their Master can get closer. For you see, the Ivory Lady's death magic is strong. Only a truly holy being can weaken in...

So, terrified and in pain, Tripitaka is forced to find his power. Inside the chamber of the Mech's heart, he places his hands on Wukong's prison. Rambling off his apologies; how he sent his disciple away, how he ignored his warnings at so many turns, how he thought the demon couldn't understand his fear, how he mistakenly thought the Monkey King was a tyrant and a beast, and how his own actions indirectly led to his disciple's capture.

Wukong isn't particularly coherent. He's half-possessed when he hears his Master's sobbing pleas. They ring louder than any mantra could. The warrior king blocks an attack from hitting the monk, proving that even in an altered state, he would protect him.

Kṣitigarbha, the bodhisattva of the dead, appears to assist the Tang Monk in sealing the Bone Demon away (hopefully) for good. The bodhisattva explains that as a being of the Underworld, the Bone Demon could not be killed, only barred from the world of the living. The only way to weaken her power in this Realm is to trap her somewhere meant for the dead.

Luring her onto holy ground, the Tang monk starts an incantation to seal her inside a burial tomb meant for the mortal Emperor's family.

As much as the Bone Demon thrashes and resists against her chains, she smiles. She knows that it's only time before she can return to the land of the living. The Monkey King has already caused innumerable damage to the fate of others.

And her hunters hadn't turned up with just servants in those two years... seems that the Monkey King had a dear friend in his ranks that could hear the Past, Present, and Future.

Now she and her Chief of War just needed a way to get their claws on the Six Eared Macaque...

Amongst the destruction of this small kingdom, Wukong is carried to shelter by his Master. It takes the king some time to reawaken, but is surprised to see the faces of his pilgrim brothers and his own subjects when he does. The servants, spared from the carnage by the Pilgrims' intervention, hug their king joyfully. Even confused and drained, Wukong hugs his people back, fretting over the youngest of them as a good king should.

Subject: "My King! Your pilgrim brothers told us you were in peril, and did whatever they could to free you!" Wukong, shocked: "They did?" Rest of the Pilgrims: (*awkward smiles of concern. all are messed up from battle*) Subject: "Yes yes! Mr Pig in particular proved he knew you by recalling your gentleness." Wukong, baffled: "What... exactly happened?" Tripitaka: "Let's just say I will endeavor not to blindly disregard your warnings anymore Wukong." Wukong, amused: "Heh."

The Tang Monk recinds his diciple's banishment, promising to do better to heed Wukong's concerns, and not hold his own to himself. The King's subjects get a safe passage home with aid from the flying dragon-horse and the King himself.

As for the Bone Demon? They agree to just tell Wukong about the sealing part. They don't need to burden him with the knowledge that he was nearly used as a battery for a gargantuan bone construct. :)

Wukong is only hit with the memories of the incident during the events of New Years - the webs of the Spider Mech unlocking the key of his time as the First Construct's heart. But why? What was the bone demon's angle? Why did it *need* him?!

Looks like he needs to get digging ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nekohime19]

Macaque study # S2

Alright, let's go for Macaque analysis in season 2!!

After Macaque's introduction episode we got a pretty one-dimensional frame with a very manipulative villain who got some past with the Monkey King. This is our impression of Macaque, and the fact he's cool (at least that's my impression).

Shadow powers are cool and Macaque animation, imagery, soundtrack and fight sequences are very cool!

Let's see what season 2 brings to this one dimensional frame. Do we get to see some nuances already? Or is he still the same villain?

Season 2 ep7

Season 2 is the continuation of season 1 in the sense that the show keeps its episodic nature and keeps introducing MK's new powers, even if we do have an underlying plot with LBD.

Macaque appears in episode 7 (“Shadow Play”) which already by the title, if you remember Macaque gimmick in s1, you can get an inkling about who's gonna be the focus here without watching the episode in itself. But what is interesting this time is that MK's friends are involved with Macaque. Whereas in season 1 Macaque's episode was focused on MK, Wukong and Macaque and the other characters only made a brief one minute apparition, this time more of the main cast is here!

What I think is interesting from the start is, very much like s1 ep8, the episode starts with MK having a confrontation. This time it's not with Wukong but with Mei and Tang who mainly complain about how MK don't spend much time with them anymore. It's interesting how Macaque's episodes in s1 and s2 always start with MK arguing with the people he cares about and somehow creating a wedge between him and those people. In s1, Macaque used the wedge and tried to widen it, we'll see what he does about the wedge this time.

Also, even as a joke, I think it was so funny to have this parallel :

Wukong being the action-phased movie and Macaque the more traditional theater play is such a funny contrast. It goes with what they're portraying of themselves to others really.

What I really like about this episode is how Macaque's aesthetic with the shadows is emphasized, the animation really delves deeper in the unsettling, almost creepy feels of the shadows. We got doors that close by themselves, things that move in the dark and under the seats, puppets that move by themselves. We really dig into the horror movie aesthetic with this one and even the characters feel it, they're scared of this.

Macaque without even being on the screen yet already puts the mood. What I find interesting is that contrary to other villains like LBD who are naturally scary because of the way they are Macaque is scary because of what he's doing with his shadows, because of the shows he creates. Without the moving shadows, the doors which close by themselves, Macaque is not that scary, by that I mean the way he's animated, the way he carries himself is not as scary as let's say LBD. Macaque put on a show to be scary. In my opinion, that shows how Macaque put on a mask to be something he's really not, to appear as a villain when in reality he's way more nuanced than that. He's acting. In s1 he was acting and lying the whole time, acting like a hero in front of MK, acting like Wukong's comments didn't bother him during the final confrontation.

He's always acting. And he keeps doing so in s2. You can see in both seasons he's smiling a lot but in the later season his smile will be more and more rare, making you wonder if this cruel smile he had since the beginning is also just a part of the act. I'll go back to Macaque's smile in s3 bc oh boy this monkey smiles a lot even when he's tortured by LBD.

Now, let's talk about the shadow play and what we can get out of it, and what it means.

The first part of the shadow play :

Macaque : Welcome viewers to a shadow play the likes of which have never been seen. It follows the tragic tale of a legendary warrior and how those who bring light in this world inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear. Like light heroes bring warmth, hope and friendship but they also give life to the darkness.

So, a lot to unpack already.

First the fact that Macaque qualifies Wukong as a “legendary warrior” when the word “warrior” is more or less reserved to Macaque, makes you wonder if in this particular sentence Macaque is not talking about Wukong but himself. “It follows the tragic tale of a legendary warrior and how those who bring light in this world inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear.”, if we go with the interpretation that the legendary warrior here is Macaque (despite the image showing Wukong) then the connotation “tragic tale” makes more sense, considering Macaque perspective is skewed and he will sees what happened to him as “tragic”and it is less likely for him to qualify what happened to Wukong as “tragic” when he has so much trouble recognizing what Wukong endured in the first place.

Of course, the mention of light and darkness is a reference for both Wukong and Macaque. Macaque is always insisting on how Wukong is not perfect, how the hero is not flawless, how light cannot exist without darkness. Macaque wants to destroy this image of the flawless hero Wukong portrayed for so long but he does not take into account that mayhaps this image wasn't created by Wukong himself but by the people around him. And perhaps, in a way, he tries to connect himself to Wukong by saying that light and darkness goes hand in hand, even if unconsciously.

The mention of “those who bring light in this world inevitably brings darkness to those they hold dear” is, I think , a very salty line. It's the world vs loved one conflict for heroes. The “I'll sacrifice you for the world” type of thing that I think Macaque is very salty about. Wukong chose the world instead of him. On the contrary Macaque is personally more of a “I'll sacrifice the world for you” type, and that's why he's so salty about this. There is a clear confrontation between the terms “world” and “those they hold dear”, Macaque is putting “bringing darkness” to the heroes' loved ones as a consequence of “bringing light to the world”. For him it's inevitable, which speaks volume of how he thinks his relationship with Wukong went, he's putting the blame on what happened between them on Wukong hero status.

The idea that Macaque said of heroes giving life to the darkness is clearly an implicit way to say that Wukong created him. Which is not wrong, if we go with the interpretation that Wukong killed Macaque, but Macaque is denying so much of what Wukong lived through right now. His perspective is really skewed.

Macaque : The hero and the warrior were like the sun and the moon. Their light a protective glow shining upon the world. Together there was nothing that could stop the two of them. Either in the celestial realms or on earth. As time went on the hero attained power beyond comprehension as the hero’s light grew so too did his shadow and soon the warrior was cast in that shadow. In the darkness the warrior was forgotten by the hero.

Again, a lot to unpack. Macaque stops trauma dumping through theater.

Clearly, Macaque's view of his past relationship with Wukong is very unhealthy. He qualifies them as the “sun” and the “moon”, as two being in perfect harmony. We can see how the “world” is separated from this balanced duo. Macaque, in his head, didn't need anyone but Wukong. They were two beings against the rest. It was Macaque and Wukong against the world. The brotherhood is not even mentioned which spoke volumes about how Macaque felt, he never valued the brotherhood, we'll see that more in s4. What causes the imbalance between the hero and the warrior is “power”. I think we can easily agree that Macaque is talking about Wukong's search for immortality and the battle against the Jade Emperor. Wukong's search for power broke the balance between Macaque and Wukong. Again Macaque mentions the darkness and how Wukong casted him there, I think it's a lil unfair to say this because Macaque was naturally placing himself in Wukong's shadow already (but we'll see that in s4 again). We can see Macaque's fear here : being forgotten by Wukong. And I think he still has this fear inside of him and perhaps that's one of the reasons why he tries to get Wukong's attention so much by taunting him and trying to rile him up.

Also, calling someone the “sun”obviously speaks volumes about how much you admire this person. You can't call someone the sun without at least putting them on some sort of pedestal (perhaps it's because I love shadowpeach but I see some romantic implications in there, but again you do you).

In between the shadow play we can see how Wukong's absence is putting pressure on MK, he believe he sees Wukong when in reality it's just one of Macaque's shadows.

After the play, we have a montage of MK being miserable with the shadowplay going in loop in the background, MK is relating to the warrior.

This shot of MK touching his shadow is clearly a way to convey how MK relates to the warrior casted in the shadows. Monkey King leaving makes MK feel as if he's inadequate, MK deals with a lot of insecurities about this, about being right and worthy and it pushes him away from his friends.

When Macaque confronts MK and MK realizes that, yes, it was Macaque all along, what I find interesting is that once again Macaque brings Wukong in the conversation. Saying how now that Wukong is not here Macaque should teach MK a lesson. Macaque cannot help himself but brings Wukong into this even when Wukong is not here. There is also the “one and only” line that Macaque uses to reveal himself, a call back to Wukong's “one and only” line in the pilot episode when he introduced himself.

After this, Macaque and MK fight and once again the choreography of the fight is so cool. But once again, Macaque is stealing so much of the spotlight. He cannot help but comment on everything even when he's not in the frame, his voice is always ringing. Really, each time we got a scene with Macaque this guy is at the center of it, he's acting, and he's acting so good he grabs your attention.

Now what Macaque says is pretty self explanatory : MK is abandoning his friends. The “classic hero manœuvre” comment really shows how bitter Macaque is about heroes because of what happened with Wukong.

Now, while there are parallels between Macaque and Wukong, there are also a lot between Wukong and MK.

First the way they're both pressed down by shadow clones and uses golden vision to escape :

Second is when MK pounced on Macaque. The images used here are actually also used in season 5 during the very brief flashbacks we get about Wukong and Macaque fight.

So while Macaque's lesson is more than shady, there is some basis of truth in his accusations. MK really ressemble Wukong on a lot of things. They both really care about the people they love and will do anything for them. Wukong lost himself with this purpose and in some very asshole-y way Macaque is trying to prevent this with MK.

What I think is also interesting to consider in this episode is if Macaque planned this so-called lesson or if he simply took the opportunity when he saw MK and his friends and perhaps eavesdropped on their conversation at the beginning of the episode (where MK's friends were complaining about MK distancing himself). We know the team went to the Shadow Play because they saw a poster. The play was always going to be about the “hero and the warrior” considering the illustration on the poster. But did Macaque manipulate them into coming or was it just a lucky coincidence is never really answered. At the beginning of the episode we see other people in the theater so I might be inclined to think it was a coincidence. Would Macaque really create a whole shadow play and advertise it to the town just for teaching a lesson to MK? If Macaque simply took the opportunity to teach MK a lesson it might explain why he feels so confusing in this episode : the lesson was not planned but the result of an impulsive action after hearing that MK was distancing himself from his friends and perhaps seeing the shadow of Wukong in his behavior. In fact, Macaque might not even know why he's doing this but hides it really well.

MK also has some flashbacks of LBD during the fight with Macaque, while I think it's a form of PTSD I also suppose it could mean the way Macaque took away his friends and are controlling them reminds him of LBD and the underlying fear of LBD doing the same thing.

What confuses MK and us as an audience and makes us think : Okay maybe Macaque wasn't doing this just to be a jerk. Is when Macaque blocks MK's staff. He could have easily won here but instead he chose to stand down and free MK's friends which is a very confusing thing to do for a supposed villain.

Even MK doesn't understand Macaque's motivations.

In truth, Macaque never really gave away his motivations even if we can heavily speculate about it. The only thing he says is : “I kinda wanted to do the whole watching the hero be tormented by their own mistakes thing but seems like you’re already doing this by yourself”. But if Macaque's only goal was to torment MK then why would he talk about “potential”.

Macaque (at the end of the fight) : you're right, that is enough. You know you really are that bit too much like him but it's good to see that there is some potential.

I think this line betrays Macaque's true intentions, it's not all about tormenting MK (even if he pretends it is minutes after the “potential line”) it's about MK not taking the same path as Wukong, if it’s out of care for MK or out of fear of another Wukong being created is still debatable.

Unlike in s1 where Macaque used the wedge between Wukong and MK to his advantage and tried to widen it, here instead Macaque is trying to make MK realize the wedge between him and his friends, no matter how badly and how asshole-y he does it.

It's perhaps here that MK realizes Macaque is a more confusing individual than he initially thought and that's why he goes after him even after getting his friends back. MK is still very snarky with Macaque but there is some sort of comprehension when he points out how Macaque was the warrior in the story. Macaque even warns MK about LBD in his own very ambiguous way, he even does a call back to s1 with the “You can never have too many teachers” line, again a lil spite directed towards Wukong when Wukong is not even here.

I think this is a very important detail, MK realizing Macaque is confusing and maybe not as one-dimensional as he thought he was. It's important for MK and for the audience.

Macaque said there is some potential in MK, well when you see this episode you say to yourself maybe there is some potential in Macaque too, to become better.

While Macaque is still very much a jerk AND a villain here, he also show us more complexity, more subtlety than what we thought him capable of. Yes. Macaque trapped MK's friends in his lantern. Yes. His lesson was downright terrible and not very well-planned (probably because it was an impulsive act). Yes. Him playing with MK's mind, taking on Wukong's appearances, is very wrong and I am NOT denying that. BUT, as I am not denying Macaque being an asshole, you cannot deny Macaque being confusing, being more than one-dimensional. You cannot deny him not finishing MK off when he had the occasion. You cannot deny his convoluted warning about LBD at the end of the episode. You cannot deny the shadowplay and what it might imply with his relationship with Wukong, adding more depth about his character (even if the perspective is skewed).

Macaque is an asshole there, but I don't think he's a rotten apple.

At the end of the episode the not-mayor comes to get Macaque. Again I think this scene is pretty telling on Macaque's relationship with LBD.

The purple who was the dominant color quickly turns blue to indicate that Macaque is not in control anymore despite this being his domain, his episode. In image 2, the smile Macaque has can fool you if you don't see the lil sweat on his forehead, this is a sign of nervousness. For the first time since we have been introduced to Macaque in LMK, Macaque is nervous. Macaque wasn't nervous against Wukong yet he is right now. He's afraid. The fact that Macaque is smiling as a sign of nervousness really hints you already about his coping mechanism. It'll be more relevant and more present in s3 but it is interesting to notice how Macaque works to keep fear at bay (I'll talk more about it in s3).

The not-mayor strangles Macaque. I would like to insist on this form of violence. Strangling. No. Clearly Macaque is not willing to go with the not-mayor. And everyone telling me otherwise didn't watch the same show. Violence is a core element of Macaque relationship with LBD, and we cannot talk about Macaque in season 3 without talking about this. But I'll get back to this in S3.

So what can we say about this episode? We learned a lot about Macaque's feelings for Wukong and their past relationship, at least what he thought happened. And while Macaque still acts like a villain, he does show potential for being better. Showing this potential is really important for the redemption processus, because without these tiny hints of Macaque hidden goodness, or at least the start of goodness within him, the redemption wouldn't have felt genuine.

The use of colors, blue background/blue not-mayor and purple Macaque, really showcase Macaque lack of control in this situation. He's not in control anymore, everything around him turned blue. This is an important fact, and of course Macaque not being willing doesn't excuse his actions later in s3. I'm always first to say that trauma doesn't excuse your shitty actions. But I have empathy. And I do think context matters. Circumstances matters. You cannot brush them aside. Yet they are not to be used as an excuse for his behavior either. He's an asshole here. But what interest me is if he's rotten, if he's irredeemable? Is he? I don't think so.

This is a processus. Macaque arc is long. Showing that Macaque is not willing to go, that he's under threat, subjected to violence, is meant to make us understand he's point of view, to understand him better as a character. If you brush this context of violence aside while talking about Macaque then I believe that you are mischaractering him.

Macaque is confusing for MK and for us, but he showed us something there, a spark, as tiny as it is.

He's more nuanced than we thought he was in s1 ep8.

It's a lil step in the grand scheme of things, potential without action is wasted, but the fact that the potential is here is to be noted regardless because it will be important in the redemption processus later on.

Also, I like that in this episode MK has parallels with both Wukong and Macaque. He relates to the warrior (Macaque) and fears that Wukong is leaving him behind, but also MK fights like Wukong and acts a lot like him. It shows how MK is really a merge between the two monkeys, he's not exactly like them, but he has some common traits with both of them, which I think is why he will be greater than the both of them at the end of this. After all, the mentee has to surpass the mentors one day or another.

Like the previous post, this is my interpretation of LMK, you can disagree, no problem!

I'll post Macaque analysis in season 3 in another post.

Previous / Next

[deliveryboysomewhatequaltoheaven]

The Macaque Problem

I would definitely say Macaque's character is an issue for the show. His redemption arc is not good, and it brings down the other characters and takes up their time and arcs.

When we first see him in S1 and 2, he is an old frenemy of Wukong's bitter over an unspecified falling out. He is angry and lashing out at MK and his friends, projecting this feud onto them. He claims MK didn't notice his friends were gone, but we see him trying to call Mei, and that the others were resentful, but we see tang looking upset being forced to attack MK. Seems like a clear enough villain concept with some room forward right? But S3 and 4 derail that.

Chronologically, we can talk about the Brotherhood, (which he was not a part of in JTTW, and he complained abt being left behind in S2 but here he was?? Eh) He claims that Wukong pushed ahead without thinking or listening and that's what got him trapped in the mountain. But what do we see before Wukong surrenders to the Jade Emperor?

The rest of the Brotherhood trapped by the Celestial Army. We don't see Wukong fight the Jade Emperor. He was an immortal shapeshifter, I have no doubt Wukong could have escaped. But he turned himself in to save his friends. Was he in a bad mood in the mountain? I mean, yeah, but Macaque doesn't seem to consider that he's free because Wukong is not.

We still don't know about the final falling out and Macaque's seeming death, though S5 implies that Macaque pushed the situation. Still, it's not good, because if they can't properly resolve it, than it's just going to remain between them and Macaque's grudge against Wukong can't be properly moved past, which hampers his arc.

But then S3 happens, and honestly I think Macaque's motives are dumb. Why is he trying to get in the way of them stopping LBD if he also wants to be free of her? It's a positive for you! But they also start trying to portray him as someone who 'calls Wukong out' because S3 and 4 really try to make Wukong out to be a jerk. He made mistakes but it was a desperate situation against the Lady Bone Demon. I love Mei and Pigsy but they also call him out when they said nothing about the Fourth Ring/visions.

'You will make things worse for MK when I personally attack and threaten him and his loved ones for my own gain' OK Macaque!

But the S3 special is the real kicker. Macaque apparently changes his mind and we don't know why. They show some mistrust at first until MK says he knows Macaque is not a bad guy deep down... but doing one or two helpful things after three seasons of stalking, threatening, and attacking the gang doesn't exactly convince me.

And then this bit from the S3 special finale:

Uh, how??? Wukong is right, Macaque was until very recently willing throw everyone under the bus so he could get away from LBD. It's pretty rich that he would call Wukong self centered. Whatever Wukong did was trying to stop her and protect MK from having to deal with it.

In the S4 special, they also have Macaque talk about Azure Lion, and again I'm not sure why we are listening to him on characters' morality

Says the guy who wrote a play about how 'Sun Wukong is a big old meany who hurt my precious little fee-fees' if I never see or hear the hero and warrior monologue again it will be too soon but I will say he at least seems to consider he might have been wrong, though they don't really dwell on it...

Even in S5, we get this bit.

Once again, Wukong is right!! After 3 seasons of attacking and harassing MK I don't think he really gets to give advice. Plus WUKONG WAS TRYING TO TALK TO MK ABOUT IT RIGHT BEFORE THIS! But MK was not doing well emotionally and Wukong was trying to be mindful and not push!

And honestly I think they all let Macaque off easy for the S3 events, he literally choked out Mei and threatened to kill her! (Sidenote: he can call MK and Tang by their names, but Mei was just 'the girl' throughout S3... urgh)

But when Wukong gets mad at him, Macaque says "I didn't do this!" Well you forced the gang to do something that you didn't know what the consequences of would be! But Tang intervenes saying he did it, even though he awkwardly admits Macaque forced him but that he felt he should because of the golden cicada. Macaque later decides to leave the situation he forced. He later does help some, but doesn't really get held accountable for his part in everything.

But I guess it's fine bc at the end of the special MK gives him this drawing. This is actually kind of really upsetting and again makes little sense considering how much he and Mei care about other otherwise. But nah Macaque is cool now it's fine...

And Ao Guang! This is a tougher one, but in S5 they had Macaque let himself get sent to the Pagoda to buy others time... well I just say that's karma!

And Macaque comes back, of course, but we never hear more about Ao Guang. Even when they send the power of the Stones out, we do in fact see the East Sea Palace and the attendant, but not him, so his fate is unclear.

So yeah, overall, I think he was forgiven too fast, the root issue of his fight with Wukong unaddressed, and he takes up time from the others characters.

[digitaldoeslmk]

thinking about the variations of a redemption arc, but Buddhism style

LBD: wanted a chance deep down, but now that she got it, she'll complain about it the whole time

Mayor: saw the errors of his way and is genuinely trying his best

Red Son: got dragged kicking and screaming through every step of the way, but it somehow worked

[sour-monkie]

Any opinion on Lady Bone Demon and Macaque redemtion arc?

_🌟

LBD will probably be the best villain we ever get. I do think she was unfortunately stunted by being in a show like Monkie kid though. I have a lot of ideas and thoughts of what this show could have been if it wasn’t made by Lego was geared towards an older audience and had a proper 25 minute episode run time. Stuff like her having more followers that bother the cast. ( mayor could be an example of this idea his whole character is another victim of the show being what it is imo)

Macaque is another thing that was wasted on this show and could have been so much better but for now we’re talking about canon so I’ll push those thoughts aside. Could the redemption arc been better? 100%. Is this a kids show made to sell toys with a shitty run time ? YES. I really do think most of the people complaining about it are forgetting what this show is and expecting wayyyy too much from it. But come on it’s Lego did you really expect some grand multi season redemption plot? He’s part of the gang now and there’s nothing we can do about it so please just grow up and find something else to talk about.

[lmk-aus-galore]

Oh hard core agree. I can't tell you how baffling it was begging for people to actually read the source material in animanga fandoms because they would just go on trashing on the heroes and simping for the villains and making up false crimes characters didn't even do, then walking into LMK and it was the exact opposite. Everyone is obsessed with the source material, they HATE the villain. What the pepperoni. Seeing people go "well of course Wukong hates Mac what did he expect when he killed and ate a monkey and stole stuff" he didn't do SQUAT. And just because LMK combined demons with Brotherhood characters of similar names doesn't mean they were the same character in JTTW so seeing THAT and the assumptions people bring from that is. huh. I think JTTW is too advance a book for the 14 year old age demographic LMK attracts. I'd also like to study this wild phenomenon of villain redemption demands because nobody complained about Red Son and it makes me laugh everytime someone says "Macaque needs to show more actual want to change" like, fam. Maybe if he was an actual villain to BEGIN WITH instead of *checks note* a one off instance of villainy where all he did was fight Wukong post-stealing MK's powers and be a bullying jerk, another instance of ambiguous LBD warning and trauma projecting lore dumping, and then a following season of being an unwilling henchman who kept telling us 50 times he didn't want to do this, that LBD forced it bc he "already had a taste of dying" and just wanting to be free of it and never talk to MK and his friends again *points very deliberately at the "and then I'm done with you all." line. Pretty dang hard for a character to pull things out of a hat to convince others that "they no longer have those motives and desires" when they didn't have them in the first place. Love the way you're calling out the Bull Fam and Tripitaka those are so trueeee. Zhu Bajie too lmao. My thoughts exactly. Twinkle toes over there is going to be a fun character to witness when we get context on the "Monkey! No violence!" line in LMK. And by character, I mostly mean the fandom response.

I can spend all day listing how much almost all the villains hold MK responsible for Wukong’s actions nearly 90% of the time or at least shit on him all because he’s Wukong’s successor.

But that’ll take literally all day…

It’s also the same with Every SINGLE inaccuracy in LMK that gets glossed over because every single fan’s bias of certain things.

Like you can condemn Macaque and make him all villainy but what about Zhu Bajie? Or Tripitaka? One of the reasons I dislike Zhu Bajie is because not only did he not change he was a pervert. I really disliked him for that. But it looks like LMK COMPLETELY changed that because we barely see any mention of his wife and the flashbacks show that Wukong met him in the same village Tang, MK and Mei were in. So clearly there has been a change. But I barely see hate for Bajie about it because half the fandom villainizes Tripitaka already for not disciplining him as much as Wukong.

If you want to acknowledge how Macaque was in JTTW you also have to acknowledge EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER in the JTTW. If that’s how you really want it to go.

One thing I think would be the reason as to why the whole ‘Macaque cannibalized one of Wukong’s grandchildren’ was changed is because Macaque and Wukong KNEW EACH OTHER before the Journey. It is also implied that Macaque has been with Wukong the longest, (In the context of Shadow Play) and it is implied that he possibly resided or at least stayed in FFM. Which meant that Macaque is also attached to the Monkeys. Remember: Macaque’s motive is to hurt Wukong and only Wukong. Which is why he goes after MK because he knows that will hurt Wukong. But if he is attached to Wukong’s grandchildren and has lived with Wukong it’s also gonna hurt Macaque if he killed them. (Though Macaque is not overly affectionate like Wukong, the fact that the monkeys trust him enough to literally sit on top of any part of him they can sit on proves that Macaque did tend to them while Wukong was away.)

The only reason I can think that Wukong hates him is because of Tripitaka and the whole ‘using Wukong’s face’ jig.

Macaque can canonically pretend to be Wukong, he did so with MK in Season 2 and did trick Wukong into thinking he was MK in Season 1. There is a likelihood that the whole ‘pretending to be Wukong’ still happened in LMK.

Remember: In the Flashbacks of Macaque and Wukong’s confrontation, there is no circlet on Wukong’s head. This is further confirmed in Season 3 during the Samadhi Fire arc. In the Amnesia episode, Wukong confirms they are still in the Journey AFTER the Samadhi Fire was sealed (Because he said Four Rings which means the Samadhi Fire was sealed in rings already) And notice in the flashback when they were sealing the Samadhi Fire, Wukong doesn’t have his circlet, compared to the flashback with Azure where he DOES have a Circlet. No matter if Macaque’s flashback was faked, it does confirm that after some time, Tripitaka trusted Wukong enough that he removed the Circlet.

Which possibly means that Tripitaka and Wukong grew to have a mutual understanding of each other. Till Macaque showed up and proceeded to ruin everything.

So yeah if you need a reason as to why Wukong hated Macaque there’s a possibility it wasn’t about cannibalism in the context of LMK.

[mandareeboo]

I love this episode. It's so darn sneaky. I love the way Macaque uses his powers here, and that entrance was just muah *chefs kiss* you could see little glitch symbols on the TV. Love me a good spooky aesthetic AND a theatre kid in one. Isn't it curious how MK calls his gold vision "a baby power" and they're all chatting about how his powers show up when he needs them most, like when he needs to save his friends with the fish ;) and he mentions 72 transformations first? Kinda interesting how Macaque forces that exact situation. As well as how he tied up MK here + held up by the throat in ep 1, treating him as LBD and Mayor did to him then complains about how MK can't even beat him??? Seems like he wants MK to do what he couldn't. The eye thing is just brutal lmao, this season treats him as a punching bag. It's the funniest thing to me bc it basically drives Macaque to be absolutely fed up with being the villain. He'll still be antagonistic, but he had (1) nice stunt of being a jerk to kill Wukong and then discovered being in close proximity to MK and friends is the most annoying experience ever when somebody else wants you to do it.

Macaque has never been interested in world domination! Hell, it's almost a stretch to call him a villain. His main goal is to irritate two (2) people, damn the consequences, and he does it well. His main appearances as an evildoer is literally just him thumbing his nose at Monkey King and trying to awkwardly evil-dopt MK.

[night-faye]

*cracks knuckles* ALRIGHT- 1) Update on what I said for a hero will sacrifice one to save the world, a villain will sacrifice the world for one but its hero/warrior philosophy. I finally found Mei's line for it! "Wukong knew the risks. It's what he would do if he had to. That's the hard part of being a hero." And THAT'S why the next episode is "Time to be Warriors" because being a hero never works out :D 2) Isn't it SO funny how Macky's complaints about "other people will tell you to be patient" feels like the kind of thing Wukong would've learned himself from the Monk after the journey 🤔 "your first strike should be your last strike" *coughs in jttw wukong killed macky in one hit to the head* "you don't use a weapon, you are a weapon." Sir WHAT HAPPENED. This wasn't you before 😭 I'm starting to think his "don't you feel stronger now" might be something someone told him after this so called "who did you make a deal with?" 🤔 3) So we know Macky instigated the fight, naturally. but seriously WHAT HAPPENEDDDDDDD. he was SAD and GUILTY and WUKONG LOVED HIM SM HE WAS RUFFLING HIS FUR AND FIXING HIS CLOTHES. how does a guy go to such murdery lengths that they started hating each other sm in S1 and then??? like?? S5 that love is creeping back???? of course, just like Macky getting interrupted in S4, they just can NOT seem to hold hands 😔 so Fluffy had the bright idea of ShadowPeach hand holding when Wukong dies. She is obsessed with his death flags as a mentor. 4) "The old you would've leveled this whole mountain range!" <-- monkey MK splits a mountain in half. 5) "inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear." now that we know how crazy this play is for hinting stuff, WHAT is up with the monkey we see get attacked with evil vibes and why is it on this line Macky 👀 also hilarious to me "last show actually I was just heading off-" he seriously spent ALL DAY just talking about his break up over and over to anybody who would listen. "always the comedian" <--- s4 opens with Wukong joking and dancing on a table. Can you tell I'm obsessed with recontextualizing dialogue? "so you're her puppet now?" "haha you know me." HELLO? IMPLYING WHAT? all this talk about "a winning side" is very owie, when you think of the side that lost the war against heaven but also <3 in joining MK. despite LBD having WUKONG on her side. "your buddy Wukong values people by how useful they are to him." BUDDY YOURE THE ONE WHO FELT BAD YOU COULDNT BE USEFUL ENOUGH TO BREAK HIM OUT. I'm sensing some serious miscommunication over the Journey West here. BUT GEE really makes you think about Macky telling MK to be a weapon! That'll make you useful to the Monkey King for sure! also! the winning side was almost titled "a traitor inside" gee isn't THAT suspect. *pokes Macky repeatedly* double agent vibes lowkey. or is this a callout for betraying Wukong lol. 6) going through my like history and someone pointed out that MK was probably "you're in time out young man!" while Macky, fully able to fight back, stood there and let them tie him up like "oh no I can't believe you're overpowering me like this. this place is a nightmare." 7) Update on "Wukong is the undefeatable Monkey King he HAS to be strong." he only reacts to the spicy pepper burning his mouth bc he's used to pain ^_^ who cared at all if he was hurt by the circlet, why would they care if he complained about the burning? and really? a spicy burning hot pepper? when he already was forced to eat molten copper pellets? and dropping a rock on him when he had a mountain dropped on him? which fun fact: based on Wukong's pose, it seems he got trapped while running ;D

1) Update on what I said for a hero will sacrifice one to save the world, a villain will sacrifice the world for one but its hero/warrior philosophy. I finally found Mei's line for it! "Wukong knew the risks. It's what he would do if he had to. That's the hard part of being a hero." And THAT'S why the next episode is "Time to be Warriors" because being a hero never works out :D

🥺🥺🥺🥺

2) Isn't it SO funny how Macky's complaints about "other people will tell you to be patient" feels like the kind of thing Wukong would've learned himself from the Monk after the journey 🤔

MMM! YEAH I HAD THOUGHTS ON THIS THAT I WILL BE EXPLORING IN FICS HEHE

"your first strike should be your last strike" *coughs in jttw wukong killed macky in one hit to the head*

Hey, hey hey, shut up <3

"you don't use a weapon, you are a weapon." Sir WHAT HAPPENED. This wasn't you before 😭 I'm starting to think his "don't you feel stronger now" might be something someone told him after this so called "who did you make a deal with?" 🤔

Ohohohoh yes. this line. this line makes me Thing Things. So Many Things.

Will also be explored in fics I write hehehehe

3) So we know Macky instigated the fight, naturally. but seriously WHAT HAPPENEDDDDDDD. he was SAD and GUILTY and WUKONG LOVED HIM SM HE WAS RUFFLING HIS FUR AND FIXING HIS CLOTHES. how does a guy go to such murdery lengths that they started hating each other sm in S1

No lie I am currently working on a fic that will be exploring this EXACT thing :) You should Be Afraid :)

and then??? like?? S5 that love is creeping back???? of course, just like Macky getting interrupted in S4, they just can NOT seem to hold hands 😔

GOD YEAH IT'S SO HEARTBREAKING AHHHH

so Fluffy had the bright idea of ShadowPeach hand holding when Wukong dies. She is obsessed with his death flags as a mentor.

@fluffypotatey when I get you

Can you tell I'm obsessed with recontextualizing dialogue?

yes dw i am too hehe

"so you're her puppet now?""haha you know me."HELLO? IMPLYING WHAT? all this talk about "a winning side" is very owie, when you think of the side that lost the war against heaven

:)))) >*pats my trunk full of plans*<

6) going through my like history and someone pointed out that MK was probably "you're in time out young man!" while Macky, fully able to fight back, stood there and let them tie him up like "oh no I can't believe you're overpowering me like this. this place is a nightmare."

LMAO THAT'S SO FUNNY

7) Update on "Wukong is the undefeatable Monkey King he HAS to be strong." he only reacts to the spicy pepper burning his mouth bc he's used to pain ^_^ who cared at all if he was hurt by the circlet, why would they care if he complained about the burning? and really? a spicy burning hot pepper? when he already was forced to eat molten copper pellets? and dropping a rock on him when he had a mountain dropped on him? which fun fact: based on Wukong's pose, it seems he got trapped while running ;D

HEY WHAT IF YOU DIDN'T? (I'mjustkiddingthisisgreat)

[eldritchlittleblackdragon]

One of the most frustrating aspects of several jobs I've had now: people DO NOT FUCKING READ.

Argh!!!!!

[lmkwritings]

heyo hope ur doing well!! <3 i saw that ur requests are open and can u do a platonic angst to fluff scenario with mk and a younger sister reader after she became a host for lbd and got her powers?? srry if confusing this is kinda my first time asking :'3

now this.

this i can do.

it had been getting. cold, recently. you hadn’t understood why, you just knew it was cold, and that you had to write this damn letter.

you weren’t about to question why. you just knew you had to.

then you felt. really, really cold.

especially around monkey king or your brother.

MK got worried for you when you where trembling in the middle of summer.

so, the others thought you were just stressed, and set up a day out for you all! destress and detox.

then monkey king went on vacation.

and you turned the day into something for your brother.

(no one noticed.)

you kept getting colder.

…you felt really lightheaded one day, and just.

blacked out.

nononononononoNoNONONONO NO!

WHY ARE YOU OVER THERE??

WHY-

oh.

oh.

he understands now.

your not in control.

he can see it in your eyes now.

he could feel tears build up from your harsh words, he could see your own build.

then, you held up a hand, the bone demons power flickering, like she hadn’t been expecting you to fight back.

you held up Four Fingers.

and told him to run.

he grabbed onto monkey king and they were gone.

it hurt him too much to look behind himself.

he clutched onto his mentor and wailed.

“Almost there (Y/N). Just hold on a little longer for me.”

He was glaring up at the woman possessing his sister.

instead of being scared or awkward like canon, he was determined.

angry.

he could remember it, how terrified his sister looked when she had to fight monkey king.

but she had told him.

“me or the world. take your pick.”

and there wasn’t even an option?? mk was signing her up for therapy after this.

he almost screamed out when they fell, but.

macaque caught you.

he had caught his baby sister, and for that?

mk forgave him, for everything.

how could he not?

macaque had just saved his world.

satisfaction.

that’s all the two of you felt when you hugged.

he had gripped you hard, wailing into your shoulder.

you weren’t fairing much better.

“it’s okay- i’m okay, i’m here i’m here-“

you hadn’t been able to stop reassuring you were there.

you couldn’t help but question if it was for yourself or him.

he had refused to let you go for awhile. not that you were complaining.

“she’s so nosy. she like, had me relive being thirteen.”

“WHAT??”

mei begged you to know why thirteen specifically.

“what happened during my cringe era stays in the cringe era.”

she was so pouty after.

until you started drawing the group up some armor and stuff.

“your like. infants on the field. where’s the armor? the weapons??”

it had been hard, finding out about your powers, but you didn’t hate them.

macaque taught you how to use them.

wukong helped with your sudden strength and speed.

lady iron fan had approached you, and given you books on bone demons.

“before my son burns them”- yeah right. 😒

mei and mk were ecstatic that you could fight with them.

MK and you started calling yourselves the “Sun and Moon” duo.

mei was the stars.

wukong looked pained when he heard.

macaque had started laughing hysterically.

you didn’t get it.

[imminent-danger-came]

i am so glad theres someone else who also thinks lmk executes its ideas and themes much better than toh. rip belos you will never be lady bone demon

TOH wasn't that strong in the themeing department in general (though I'm not well-versed in that show). I remember finishing the finale and being like....damn. What was the overall message of this show? ("Weirdos stick together" maybe?) Does toh have any consistent motifs or symbolism? If memory serves, not really?

Like, you rewatch episode 1x01 of LMK and MK goes "Well...I am invincible. *sigh* Anytime I try to do anything, I just gunk everything up!", and you're like. Woah. The Sun Wukong parallels are that strong from episode 1x01? Invincibility/Immortality and hurting the people you care about? No matter what you do, it leading to pain? Holy shit.

Contrast that with TOH where it's like, in episode 1x02 Luz learns she's not "the chosen one" and that the boiling isles are very different from the magical realms she imagined...which is kinda undone by the reveal that the Titan chose to show Luz the Glyphs. And while Titan Luz is very fun, it's not thematically sound—which is just kinda that whole show, you know? If you're not thinking about it that deep, then it's like "holy shit cool concept!" (which is totally valid of people), but if you do it's pretty empty. (Hi Hunter getting flapjack-based teleportation powers. What was the point of this.)

Which, I think this becomes super apparent with the Luz and Belos foil. Luz and Belos had a lot of interesting parallels (both of them being humans in the isles, each coming there wanting to fulfill a certain "role", for Luz being the "Great Witch Azura" and for Belos/Philip being a "Witch Hunter General", the whole "protecting the things you love" deal). And then, where does this all go?

It leads to Luz being told "no. You're the good guy and Belos is the bad guy! You could never be the same! Belos is motivated by his own 'need to be the hero'" (which was definitely what Luz was motivated by over the course of the show, even if it was more innocent, but whatever), and riding off of tdp s4's "In the name of love, you will do things so dangerous and vile—you will never be able to forgive yourself" and the lmk s3's "to pain" scene, it fell really flat for me—like it's not bad, it's just really mid.

(Post where I go on a rant about Luz's s3 arc being kinda lame)

And then, you have the LBD & MK foil. You have MK's s4 arc. The "to pain" scene is such a unique "you and I are not so different" moment—but it's also relevant to the whole show. And LBD is right, doing what you think is right does lead to pain. Like, even looking at MK's journey over the seasons, every action has had it's consequences.

Saving Pigsy and Tang in 1x04? Spider Queen snagged MK's hair and that let her dominate the city later. Stopping DBK in 1x10? That freed LBD. Stopping SQ in ROTSQ? That gave LBD access to the trigram furnace. MK trying to gain more power in s2? Well, "Now do you understand? From the start you never had what it took to defeat me. All your power could do was make me stronger." SWK leaving in s2? "You're the one always running off, trying to get more power or more sources of immortality." Trying to get the Samadhi fire in s3? Opps, now Mei has this uncontrollable flame within her. Monkey King running off to fight LBD alone so MK doesn't have to? He get's possessed. Freeing SWK from possession? Now LBD has the power to fulfill destiny. Attempting to free your friends from the scroll? Now Peng and Azure are also free. Trying to get SWK back? His scroll piece has been split in half. Stopping Azure from destroying all of reality? Now the Jade Emperor's power is without a host, flower fruit mountain is destroyed, and you can't help but feel they played into the puppet master's hands.

It's thematically consistent and banging. Like....anytime they try to do anything, they just gunk everything up. Like....sometimes you hurt the people who care about you the most. Like....whether you want to help people or not, everything you do can just make things worse.

AND MAYBE. Just maybe, you can also leave the world a little better than you found it. The pain that's been caused doesn't undo the good that's been done. And I guess I think that's more interesting that just like..."no! you're intent was good and theirs was bad!", you know?

[weepingtalecowboy]

"Yeah that was kind of one of the bigger problems with LMK because they constantly do what they want with the story and then people get offended about characters despite there not being any actual content in the series(like when people got offended over Wukong killing Macaque despite there being no actual content in the show that straight up implied that) the writers should tell that they do with JTTW whatever they want do that people stop complaining or hating characters for things in the book"

The ploblem is that the show writers keep refrecing Jttw, even if they make up lore for theit narrative. That's fine per sé, all films, shows, books, do take a creative imaginaction of the source material. Even the most beloved of Jttw media, most of them did took a different approach and did change some stuff, characters or timeline. The difference, is that most of them did give a brief explaination on where we are, who the characters are and what they change. Like in Nezha rebirth (don't remember the name of the film) make Li Jing a a character to empathize with, but they make it work not because they imply his reasoning or what happened but they stated at the start of the movie what happened! We already know the important part of the story , so we can understand better why characters act in the way they do.

Lmk on the other hand, doesn't do that. It can be for a low budget or not enough screen time, but if they want go into this type of changes, they need to explain what happened differently. Because like this, fans would jusz go to Jttw to fill the (plot) holes the show left behind, like Wukong killing Macaque, Erlang Shen's actions, Nezha's relationship with his family. Then it becomes a bigger mess becausa the show doesn't explain in the latter seasons, and when it explain the fans already made their headcannon cannon, so the show tries to please the fans and make a bigger mess.

Season 4 and 3 are exemple of this, they're good season, but character like Lbd doesn't feel like their season 2 self, neither Mei, Pigsy (he literally said to Mk he isn't his dad, but then is upset when Mk says he has no family?! Season 5 fixed it, thank god!) Mk (Mk wouldn't say the thing he said to Wukong, my man cares his mentor. Is ok Mk being selfiss sometimes and having flaws and upset. It just sometime it feels off), Macaque (his redemption arc wasn't a arc but a start, fight me. Nobody should have forgive him so easily. Like Mei is protected over her love ones, but is ok with Macaque that hurt all of them for funzy?) Wukong getting blame on blame for something he doesn't even have control over. Season 4 isn't better on bashing Wukong over again snd contiune to tell the fans to read Jttw but doesn't make us understand well what they changed, so the circle contiune.

The crew is oblivious trying and working hard on the show, the show isn't perfect or a masterpiece, but good and fun to watch and lego continua to fuck them over. They just bite more than they can chew. They act like they're a show with a big buldget, a lot of screen time and long season. If they worked on something similar to the first two season, the show may be sighly bettet or they could try not a a worl ending plotline every season.

(Ps. Sorry for taking so long to respond)

Is totally fine lol

[shadowpeachyuri]

Asks are getting kinda long so. Mostly, I wonder why Reddit is so ticked off at Mac lmao. Everywhere I go, it's either insane villain apologism by making the hero pathetic and wrong, or extreme villain antagonism by overblowing consequences. Bud got dragged out of hell after centuries, got a super snack out of MK's powers, vented in a theatre before a trauma flashback of MK coming to whoop his butt reminded him of SWK and couldn't even skedaddle before Not-Mayor forced him into a symmetrical wardrobe, I mean. an unwilling henchminion arc, and proceeded to get his butt whooped by the gang who love to target his trauma eye and get looney tunes whumped by electrocution in a giant lantern, tossed over a ship, and my little pony friendship is magic style song blasted in his ears. and whatever hell portal Not-Mayor dunked his head in while chained up, a few times over. he was about to throw up with that face he made when LBD semi-possessed him. I think that's enough consequences, he already got The Talk(tm) tied up again w MK, (a compliant hostage) and mostly keeps vagueing warnings to the squad, being very idgaf about LBD. Not much villain behavior compared to others I've seen. He's not even an anti-villain, he's just a self-driven traumatized survivor who vents to people in ambiguous closed off ways and tends to cross over into jerk territory. So I'm here like, are half of tumblr/reddit posts out-dated, bc if someone isn't salty about S1 Mac (rare) they are TICKED about past!Mac (frequent) to which I ask, what did bro DO. I have never seen fandom run on such hypothetical anger before. What I miss, because past!Mac's issues are just vocalized as "never made his own choices." which, is NOT a thing to apologize abt? if anything, it would fuel the fire? It sounds like a reason to ditch your friends instead of following along and passively complaining. A lot of it is also abandoning SWK, but. he visited the mountain? I see a lot about Flower Fruit burning taken from JTTW which is interesting (so yeah, I think fandom relies on the book a lot for their character feelings) bc SWK learns that after beating LBD three times WHICH IS INTERESTING because Mac says "looks like OUR OLD FRIEND The Lady Bone Demon is back" our old friend?? OUR?? by osmosis I thought their break up happened because they couldn't beat her together, and then I watched the show and there was nothing on that. but since learning the twitter post theory about memory manip, well. ShadowPeach just got more tragic. its too bad tho, I would've loved a story of accidentally killing your best friend and realizing after instead of another oh no it was this other villain behind it. but alright. it makes too much sense tho based on SWK's reactions.

OH I DIDNT EVEN CATCH THAT “OUR” bit!! it does beg the question a little bit of “why did she resurrect him then,” but at the same time, it’s a very interesting theory!!